tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post6256664229523919505..comments2024-03-19T08:42:45.690-04:00Comments on The Delaware Libertarian: I seem to have touched a nerve...Steven H. Newtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09097470960863103473noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-15949648601776803382008-12-24T05:03:00.000-05:002008-12-24T05:03:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Bowlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08368370082055845451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-5302762237151833602008-12-23T21:31:00.000-05:002008-12-23T21:31:00.000-05:00Bowly,Instead of making a remark about another per...Bowly,<BR/>Instead of making a remark about another person's ability to understand, "and until Leo can recognize why the thinking that leads to the sentence "Now homosexuals want the right to marry" is nonsense, then he will never understand the issue."<BR/><BR/>Maybe you should consider that it is up to those with a different opinion to try to engage the topic and make your point. <BR/><BR/>And IF you can not make your point, stop being lazy and using an AD HOMINEM attack.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-88168958754160032152008-12-23T14:12:00.000-05:002008-12-23T14:12:00.000-05:00Good news, Steve. Apparently, there is no behavio...Good news, Steve. Apparently, there is no behavioral disposition whatsoever -- sexual, social or otherwise -- that is not determined by the genes. So suggests a "groundbreaking study" recently published by the Ameridcan Psychological Association, so it must be true.<BR/><BR/>http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/23/bad-boys-bad-to-the-bone-no-its-in-genes/The Maryland Crustaceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18309250912148013290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-80386675050841830302008-12-23T04:28:00.000-05:002008-12-23T04:28:00.000-05:00I just read the post over at DWA, and until Leo ca...I just read the post over at DWA, and until Leo can recognize why the thinking that leads to the sentence "Now homosexuals want the right to marry" is nonsense, then he will never understand the issue.Bowlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08368370082055845451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-46571699552065028212008-12-23T04:18:00.000-05:002008-12-23T04:18:00.000-05:00But my even broader point is that no matter what t...<I>But my even broader point is that no matter what the source or intensity of our behavioral choices or even compulsions, we don't have to be enslaved by them forever.</I><BR/><BR/>That same sentence could be used in <I>support</I> of gay marriage. Or, more accurately, in response to those who believe they have the right to control the lives of others.Bowlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08368370082055845451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-55060163695237819382008-12-22T23:43:00.000-05:002008-12-22T23:43:00.000-05:00Some people only see the blows that are delivered ...Some people only see the blows that are delivered in a fight.<BR/><BR/>This was an impressive engagement.<BR/>I thank you both...<BR/><BR/>I am worried about "the agenda is to get away from calling it a behavioral choice and turn it into a condition, a disease, a genetic proclivity or anything else that removes the behavioral and moral component and thereby absolves the individual from personal responsibility." <BR/>that I see spreading for every wrong doing. <BR/><BR/>Seems like we lost all sense of Self-responsibility for our actions, particularly for our actions that are hurtful to ourselves [ like drug use ] and hurtful to others [ like robbery and assault. ] And we expect the Government with all it's money and resources and proposed Health Care to take care of us despite ourselves. <BR/><BR/>"If you are playing a Poker game and you look around the table and Can't tell who the sucker is, it's YOU." - Paul Newman<BR/>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-38197819068204153052008-12-22T22:25:00.000-05:002008-12-22T22:25:00.000-05:00Perhaps you can justly convict me of using terms a...Perhaps you can justly convict me of using terms a little too loosely, such as "pseudo-science" and "revisionist history". My main overall point is that, whether we are talking about science, history or any other discipline, our conclusions are suspect if we allow them to be shaped by an ideological agenda.<BR/><BR/>But my even broader point is that no matter what the source or intensity of our behavioral choices or even compulsions, we don't have to be enslaved by them forever. There is indeed a way of escape.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, thanks for allowing me to post comments to your site. In this type of medium, it is tempting to think that the person with the last unanswered post has won the argument. With those rules, we could go on forever, so I will let you have the last word. Anyway, I wise man once told me, "If you think you have won the argument, you probably lost it."<BR/><BR/>:-)The Maryland Crustaceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18309250912148013290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-84412648850990038222008-12-22T21:44:00.000-05:002008-12-22T21:44:00.000-05:00LeoMerry Christmas to you, too.But I have to ask i...Leo<BR/>Merry Christmas to you, too.<BR/><BR/>But I have to ask in relation to <I>I must not only question the revisionist history, but also the pseudo-science that is propagated in support of the homosexual agenda.</I><BR/><BR/>Specifically<BR/><BR/>1) To what "pseudo-science" do you refer? Taking the movement of language in the DSM from "sin" to "disorder" is clever but essentially intellectually dishonest. As you well know, work on the genetic predisposition to homosexuality is ongoing in hundreds of university and corporate laboratories around the world, along with inquiries into genetic diseases, predispositions toward male pattern baldness, and a thousand other areas of inquiry. If you're going to label something "pseudo science" you have an obligation to show me what you consider "real science."<BR/><BR/>2) To what "revisionist history" do you refer, aside from Boswell's work, which you have never read and will never read because--as you said--since you reject his conclusions without seeing his evidence (that would be "faith" right? the evidence of things not seen), you have no idea what you're talking about. All history, Leo, is revisionist when it is written, or it would not be written.<BR/><BR/>As for historical generalizations (the previous comment), you'll note that I buttressed mine with examples from pre-contact North America, West Africa, and the Polynesian Islands. Exactly how many examples would you require?Steven H. Newtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09097470960863103473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-91975489424358020422008-12-22T21:33:00.000-05:002008-12-22T21:33:00.000-05:00Steve,There is not much point in repeating my resp...Steve,<BR/><BR/>There is not much point in repeating my response to what you originally posted at Down with Absolutes. If anyone is interested they can go back to the original post and ensuing comments. (Marriage, Abortion and Gays, Oh My! http://www.delawaretalkradio.com/downwithabsolutes/?p=633 ) <BR/><BR/>With all due respect, however, I must not only question the revisionist history, but also the pseudo-science that is propagated in support of the homosexual agenda. On second thought, it would be better to leave the word “homosexual” out of the argument and concentrate on the “agenda” part. Because whether we are talking about homosexuality or another disapproved behavior, the agenda is to get away from calling it a behavioral choice and turn it into a condition, a disease, a genetic proclivity or anything else that removes the behavioral and moral component and thereby absolves the individual from personal responsibility.<BR/><BR/>The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders is now in its fourth edition ( http://allpsych.com/disorders/dsm.html). Thanks to the DSM-IV's wonderful insights, we no longer have robbers and thieves, but people who suffer from kleptomania, which itself is a subset of what are called Impulse Control Disorders: The DSM-IV elaborates: “Disorders in this category include the failure or extreme difficulty in controlling impulses despite the negative consequences. This includes the failure to stop gambling even if you realize that losing would result in significant negative consequences. This failure to control impulses also refers to the impulse to engage in violent behavior (e.g., road rage), sexual behavior, fire starting, stealing, and self-abusive behaviors.”<BR/><BR/>In the same way, we do not have sexual sins and perversions anymore, but rather “Paraphilias and Sexual Disorders” including but not limited to Exhibitionism, Fetishism, Frotteurism, Pedophilia, Sexual Masochism, Sexual Sadism, Transvestic Fetishism and Voyeurism. Of course, in the first edition of DSM, homosexuality was listed in this same group as a “pathological disorder”, but it has since graduated to a common sexual proclivity that has obtained a certain legitimacy or status with inherent rights. I’m sure the rest won’t be too far behind.<BR/><BR/>To shift the debate a little and hopefully get across that I am not specifically at war with homosexuals, I really liked the piece you posted a week or so ago in reaction to someone breaking into your garage. (I Can Do Better: http://delawarelibertarian.blogspot.com/2008/12/i-can-do-better.html). You cited a number of New Testament references, and from a biblical perspective, you do well to be convicted and moved to action in an attempt to help your fellow man. But from an alternate perspective, perhaps you shouldn’t beat yourself up so much. The desire to look primarily to your own interests or to look out for number one, is simply a natural, innately human tendency toward self preservation. I am sure there is a scientific and medical explanation for it. It has been the tendency of mankind throughout human history. There have even been periods in cultural and church history where “greedy” or “self-centered” behaviors have been tolerated if not approved, as evidenced by common proverbs and maxims such as “God helps those who help themselves.”<BR/><BR/>Let me transition to a Christmas greeting, which despite the argumentative nature of this post, I offer with all sincerity.<BR/><BR/>“And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, ‘Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord.’"<BR/><BR/>Good news (ευαγγελιον or Gospel) that announces a Savior implies that there is some “bad news” from which we need to be saved. And the bad news is that we are all in a heap of trouble.<BR/><BR/>Bad news: “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” (I Cor 6: 9-10). (And lest we think we are exempted, the above list was not meant to be all inclusive. As Romans 3:23 says, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” including goody two-shoes, self-righteous religious people.)<BR/><BR/>Good news: “And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” (I Cor 6: 11).<BR/><BR/>But in order to embrace and receive the good news, we have to acknowledge the bad news. In a sense, there is a grain of truth to the pseudo-science, because our rebellion is so ingrained in us, it is part of our nature; we can’t help it. But there is good news. There is a Savior who can free us, not by allowing us to justify our behavior, make excuses, blame shift, or appeal to history, science or sociology. We embrace the good news by owning up to our personal wickedness and helplessness, and asking the Savior to save us.<BR/><BR/>Again, I do sincerely wish you and yours a joyful Christmas and happy New Year.The Maryland Crustaceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18309250912148013290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-72101492081854619012008-12-22T20:48:00.000-05:002008-12-22T20:48:00.000-05:00"...or the fact that most societies throughout his..."...or the fact that most societies throughout history have refused to be limited to our single-line paradigm of human sexuality."<BR/><BR/>And to think you accused me of making "historical generalizations". :-)The Maryland Crustaceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18309250912148013290noreply@blogger.com