tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post8328811527716883054..comments2024-03-19T08:42:45.690-04:00Comments on The Delaware Libertarian: Why I am proud of the US military tonight...Steven H. Newtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09097470960863103473noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-50512784809759997502009-04-27T11:36:00.000-04:002009-04-27T11:36:00.000-04:00Perry, it amazes me the lengths to which you will ...Perry, it amazes me the lengths to which you will go to misrepresent positions and arguments with which you disagree. Nowhere did I state that actual physical or psychological torture is acceptable if it yields results, but rather that waterboarding, sleep deprivation and other methods, when used in the context of a controlled interrogation process do not constitute torture. This is not an "end justifies the means" argument, this is a difference of opinion on the legal definition of torture.G Rexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-22830833536188691432009-04-24T16:33:00.000-04:002009-04-24T16:33:00.000-04:00It is amazing to me the lengths to which people li...It is amazing to me the lengths to which people like G Rex will go to justify calling a procedure like waterboarding legitimate, that is, not torture.<br /><br />How do you explain, G Rex, why both the military and the FBI rejected the use of this technique?<br /><br />I think Pandora over on DL made an excellent response to this issue when she said: <I>"When we torture it’s necessary and just. When they torture us it’s criminal and barbaric.<br /><br />And when they get on their “torture is effective and produces results, my response is… so what? Geez, by those lame standards one could make the same argument for slavery. It isn’t about effectiveness. It’s morally wrong and criminal no matter what!"</I>Your argument, G Rex, is that it is all about effectiveness, the morality be damned. Moreover, none of us know anything about the effectiveness, as the information has not yet been released. So even on the effectiveness point, you have none.<br /><br />"It is morally wrong no matter what." I completely agree!<br /><br />Perry HoodAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-36857624421552230242009-04-23T15:48:00.000-04:002009-04-23T15:48:00.000-04:00Before I comment, let me establish my admittedly l...Before I comment, let me establish my admittedly limited credentials on the subject: While I was not an interrogator by trade, we in the SigInt company of my MI battalion were frequently interrogated for training purposes by the guys in the HumInt company, in accordance with the Army Field Manual. And guess who ran the shop at the Abu Ghraib prison? That would be the very same HumInt company from my old battalion.<br /><br />Anyway, as I recall it most of the approved techniques focused on mental and/or psychological tricks to get the subject to contradict himself, and how to discern fact from fiction. From example, an untrained subject will look to different sides when answering from memory than when making something up - basic left brain/right brain functionality. The trained subject, OTOH, will keep his eyes focused on a single point. Messing with the subject's environment, i.e. room temperature, sleep schedule, loud music, etc. is designed to break the concentration of the subject so that the mental tricks used to confound the interrogator become less effective than the mental tricks used to interrogate. What transpired at Abu Ghraib was that two of the reservist MPs who were tasked to help with the disorientation and sequestration process turned out to be sick freaks.<br /><br />As to the bigger picture, I would say that the "enhanced" techniques used to break the resolve and concentration of highly trained, high level terrorists at Gitmo, while distasteful or even repugnant to most, do not rise to the level of torture, and that denying that any useful information was obtained through such techniques is politically motivated, not ethically.<br /><br />Now, if Jack Bauer holds a guy over a cliff to find the "ticking time bomb" he should be prosecuted. If they find the bomb, then the President has the option of pardoning him afterwards.G Rexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-39817833126656627302009-04-23T09:57:00.000-04:002009-04-23T09:57:00.000-04:00This is a perfect post for today, Steve. Thanks.This is a perfect post for today, Steve. Thanks.Nancy Willinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05874107554093904872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-38748069123296860992009-04-23T07:49:00.000-04:002009-04-23T07:49:00.000-04:00If you are talking about systematic abuse of vario...If you are talking about systematic abuse of various [low-level combatant] detainees, whether in Iraq, Guantánamo or wherever, then I certainly agree. <br /><br />However, when talking about bigwigs like KSM that have, as we've apparently been told, crucial info about an impending 9/11-like attack (or worse), it would be negligent to NOT take the measures that were utilized to gain that information. <br /><br />Would it be "honorable" to not take this action -- and allow thousands of innocent American civilians to perish? So that we can "hold our heads high" and say, "We didn't treat KSM harshly!"Hubehttp://colossus.mu.nunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-7115861370593095262009-04-23T06:25:00.000-04:002009-04-23T06:25:00.000-04:00Great post. Since 2001, many military lawyers hav...Great post. Since 2001, many military lawyers have risked their careers because they have stood up for what is right. I have worked with them and grown to respect their willingness to do what is right.<br /><br />Regarding the military failures at AG; this was a failure of leadership; a weak Commanding Officer, bifurcated Command and Control of the prison, and lastly a very ambitious Commanding General of CJTF-7 Ricardo Sanchez who was willing to do anything to position himself for higher positions only to be thrown under the bus when it went South.Hank Foresmannoreply@blogger.com