tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post970995172225023462..comments2024-03-09T03:19:57.797-05:00Comments on The Delaware Libertarian: Thinking about (argh!) winning electionsSteven H. Newtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09097470960863103473noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-14717634525352309912008-12-13T12:52:00.000-05:002008-12-13T12:52:00.000-05:00"In your ideal social democracy, how much money wo..."In your ideal social democracy, how much money would it cost me to buy back my freedom after you take it away?"<BR/><BR/>I'll send you access to my paypal account so you can make a down payment now. :)Delaware Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13619357338844485803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-80589534694773246572008-12-13T01:33:00.000-05:002008-12-13T01:33:00.000-05:00In your ideal social democracy, how much money wou...In your ideal social democracy, how much money would it cost me to buy back my freedom after you take it away? The only barrier to the US becoming a libertarian society are people like you who think you have the right to the lives of others. Unfortunately there are a lot of you.Bowlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08368370082055845451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-86012168688342811792008-12-12T20:19:00.000-05:002008-12-12T20:19:00.000-05:00"The only problems with Finland and Sweden is the ..."The only problems with Finland and Sweden is the amount of talent and skill that is wasted as a consequence of the nanny state."<BR/><BR/>Proof?<BR/><BR/>"Sure, they have some of the highest literacy rates and good health care, but the cost is some of the highest rates of unemployment, underemployment, and alcoholism in the world"<BR/><BR/>Proof?<BR/><BR/>I am not saying these societies are perfect, only better than the US on the whole.Delaware Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13619357338844485803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-62725362772595585162008-12-12T20:15:00.000-05:002008-12-12T20:15:00.000-05:00"While I appreciate your honesty, you would admit ..."While I appreciate your honesty, you would admit that, as a practical issue of politics, if a Democratic politican ran on turning the US into Sweden, she would not do very well, even in today's electorate."<BR/><BR/>I think plenty of polls show that the basic values of US citizens are more or less social democratic. The reason those values don't prevail politically have much more to do w/ the power of vested interest over the political process.<BR/><BR/>"more to the point I do not believe that model could ever survive the transition to the scale of this country and the heterogeniety of our population"<BR/><BR/>I see no inherent barrier to the USA becoming a social democratic society because of its scale and heterogenity. I don't even have an intuition for why that would be so. But I do think that heterogenity of US society is a barrier to it becoming a Libertarian one. All those people thrown back on their own survival w/o any social cohesion or governmental supports in a maximized competitive environment. I think it would devolve w/i the span of one generation into chaos.Delaware Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13619357338844485803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-9593491368400518412008-12-12T15:41:00.000-05:002008-12-12T15:41:00.000-05:00DanaWhile I appreciate your honesty, you would ad...Dana<BR/>While I appreciate your honesty, you would admit that, as a practical issue of politics, if a Democratic politican ran on turning the US into Sweden, she would not do very well, even in today's electorate.<BR/><BR/>More to the point (and this is the issue with Libertarians) you would tend to lose a lot of people who might be willing to go, say, half-way to Sweden with you.<BR/><BR/>For the record: I don't want a country that looks like Finland or Sweden (too cold and I never liked Volvos); more to the point I do not believe that model could ever survive the transition to the scale of this country and the heterogeniety of our population.Steven H. Newtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09097470960863103473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-10157010834947561402008-12-12T15:04:00.000-05:002008-12-12T15:04:00.000-05:00The only problems with Finland and Sweden is the a...The only problems with Finland and Sweden is the amount of talent and skill that is wasted as a consequence of the nanny state. Sure, they have some of the highest literacy rates and good health care, but the cost is some of the highest rates of unemployment, underemployment, and alcoholism in the world. And you want to talk about black markets? Sweden has the largest alcohol black market in the world because they tax it so much that it makes it worth it to get it smuggled in from Denmark. People certainly shouldn't starve to death or die from preventable diseases, but American democracy and freedom has to come with the subsequent responsibility to deal with the consequences of free choice, for good or for ill. America's problem is that we want it all...we privatize success (CEOs with multimillion dollar bonuses) but we socialize failures (bailouts for everyone!). That is a ticket straight to government hell, whether you're a leftist or a rightist.Zafo Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01389121607537753155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7893272060787897238.post-35082122854311784492008-12-12T14:12:00.000-05:002008-12-12T14:12:00.000-05:00"We don't generally ask "liberals" what their nirv..."We don't generally ask "liberals" what their nirvana would look like. "<BR/><BR/>I don't think I qualify as a liberal because I believe a progressive is a different critter (although I have used the label liberal to describe myself just to further a conversation w/o being bogged down w/ making the distinction). Nevertheless, I can tell you what my achievable best state model would look like: Finland and Sweden.Delaware Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13619357338844485803noreply@blogger.com