Another indication that libertarian thought--real libertarian though as opposed to the faux libertarianism of birther Republicans--is starting to worry our liberal and progressive friends: they are paying attention to us.
I've already highlighted the series on Libertarians that Dana Garrett has promised at Delaware Watch, but this next one is too funny to miss.
jason at Delawareliberal now has a post up: Everybody is a Libertarian All of a Sudden:
The only problem is that jason has already previously admitted, just three months ago, that Libertarians have been opposed to constitutional violations.
Here's the interchange between jason and me on 24 April 2009 that I just quoted back to him:
The reason that jason is so--ah--forgetful is that actual Libertarian thought is probably the greatest single obstacle to the entire statist agenda of the Obama administration, and to the hypocritical judicial and foreign policy positions that administration has taken that are either indistinguishable from or extend beyond old Bush abuses.
jason doesn't ever talk about the Obama administration position that it can indefinitely detain people who have been found not guilty by the courts.
jason doesn't ever talk about the Obama administration position that it could execute some Gitmo detainees without trial.
jason doesn't ever talk about the army of lobbyists employed by the Obama administration, the preferred position of Goldman Sachs, the continued move to use the 3rd Infantry Division for domestic police work, or the DOJ equating same-sex marriage with child abuse.
jason prefers to trot out his little Libertarian envy rap, because he stopped complaining about constitutional and civil liberties abuses just as soon as a Democrat got elected
I've already highlighted the series on Libertarians that Dana Garrett has promised at Delaware Watch, but this next one is too funny to miss.
jason at Delawareliberal now has a post up: Everybody is a Libertarian All of a Sudden:
What a bunch of Johnny Come Latelys losers.
Where the eff were you Libertarians when George Bush was blowing up shit will nilly, establishing the department of homeland security, saying illegal wire taps were great, getting rid of habeas corpus, adding billions to the national debt, and trying to legislate morality? You have your panties in a knot over every little thing Obama does because, “holy shit the slippery slope is gonna git-cha!” (paraphrase)
But Bush, bought the country a ticket to Libertarian Hell and set up a tea party there for eight long years, and you guys were like little church mice, because OH GOD THE TERRORISTS!!
What a joke your pathetic movement is.
I was paying attention the entire Bush maladministration and I never heard a peep from local or national libertarians. Somebody find me a libertarian site that was prominently anti-Bush. Just one. I beg of you.
Either the is no real Libertarian Party or you guys seriously suck. Or, you know what? You are really Republicans, but are sick of being looked at funny so now you call yourselves Libertarians. Same wingnut bullshit, new package. That’s probably it.
The only problem is that jason has already previously admitted, just three months ago, that Libertarians have been opposed to constitutional violations.
Here's the interchange between jason and me on 24 April 2009 that I just quoted back to him:
jason,
You have an incredibly short memory for your own embarrassments.
On 24 April you wrote:You know Steve your indignation is hilarious. I don’t know how many times I thought, “Well this Bush outrage, at long last will get the libertarians stirred up,”
Only to hear crickets.
I responded:Your standard and your response are ridiculous.
Hube is not a libertarian, as far as I know.
And it’s pretty difficult for you to hold me responsible for “not speaking out” prior to November 2007 when I started a blog precisely to speak out about that and other issues. Before that, you’d have had to come to my classes, or read articles in homeland security circles, to find me speaking out on a regular basis.
The fact that I didn’t choose to join your little blogfest until November 2007 doesn’t equate with moral or intellectual silence. It only equates with the poverty of your intellectual world view: only what you happen to hear has any relevance.
FYI: as I have proven to you on multiple occasions, if you go back and check the archives of the national LP website, you will find that libertarians have been consistently against the trashing of the constitution since they first opposed the original Patriot Act. Did you? And if so, where can we read about it from 2001-2002?
And you then repliedSorry Steve. Just checked out that page you mentioned. I guess I took your party’s utter impotence for acquiescence.
To anticipate your next point, I know that the Democrats were pretty impotent throughout as well.
The whole interchange can be found here:
http://www.delawareliberal.net/2009/04/24/around-the-horn-friday-6/#comments
So you can either allow your original apology of three months ago to ride, or you can create a new one. Either way, you really should check your own notes from time to time before you start to spew.
The reason that jason is so--ah--forgetful is that actual Libertarian thought is probably the greatest single obstacle to the entire statist agenda of the Obama administration, and to the hypocritical judicial and foreign policy positions that administration has taken that are either indistinguishable from or extend beyond old Bush abuses.
jason doesn't ever talk about the Obama administration position that it can indefinitely detain people who have been found not guilty by the courts.
jason doesn't ever talk about the Obama administration position that it could execute some Gitmo detainees without trial.
jason doesn't ever talk about the army of lobbyists employed by the Obama administration, the preferred position of Goldman Sachs, the continued move to use the 3rd Infantry Division for domestic police work, or the DOJ equating same-sex marriage with child abuse.
jason prefers to trot out his little Libertarian envy rap, because he stopped complaining about constitutional and civil liberties abuses just as soon as a Democrat got elected
Comments
The intellectual firepower against the left is now centered in libertarian circles, and the lefties know it.
Problem is they really don't know how to take us on directly, so it appears they are resorting to their usual modus operandi with the neo/theo-cons : create caricatures, distort, paint with a derogatory broad brush, and frankly fabricate phony allegations (like the 'libertarians were silent about George Bush' bullshit).
Much as I like Pandora, I am floored that she thinks intellectual diversity within an ideological framework ('libertarianism') is a bad thing. I would rather be amongst people who offer a different perspective on shared beliefs than be in league an echo chamber of partisan pseudo-thinkers.
The hardcore left seems clueless that libertarianism and libertarian principles are not ideology but rather an ideological framework that can accommodate a diversity of different pro-liberty ideologies or elements of ideologies.
I suspect this is true because they are themselves so dogmatic and self-reinforcing in their singular ideology (if you can call ad hoc partisan monomania an 'ideology'). Dissent from their ultimately-collectivist world view is spurned and assaulted, on topics big and small.
Therein lies why you can hear both self-described liberals and conservatives claim "I am libertarian on XXXXXXX". Yet I don't think I have ever heard any self-described libertarian say "Well, I am a liberal on XXXXXX".
Libertarianism takes the most liberty-friendly elements of liberalism and conservatism, and creates a consistency that makes both far ends of the left-right spectrum quite uncomfortable, challenging their slavishness to absolutist bi-polarity about all things ideological and political.
They don't know how to deal with it, so they do so in the most shallow of means.
I do have to laugh at commenter Von Cracker's : "Libertarianism = utopian fantasy".
What a hoot. Leftist ideology across-the-board is the epitome of utopian thinking (e.g. "free health care for all") and fantasies about the beneficence of state power and coercion.
So I can only answer that bit of nonsense by saying, "(Neo-)liberalism = utopian fantasy...advanced by coercion".
Only these hardcore left ideologues could actually carp and gripe about a framework of ideas built around maximized individual liberty and freedom from state interference. It shows their true authoritarian statist colors, notwithstanding their occasional lip-service about civil rights/liberties and their mania about abortion rights (with which I agree, of course).
*sigh*
On the other hand, I see lunatics like the Birthers, and Republican Senators and Congress continuing to support the bigget corporate giveaway to the for profit health care industry, using lies, deceit and confusion to make a case on an issue that is truly non partisan.
Obama is loosing the health care debate because he (a corporate supporter) refuses to address the real question of for profit health care. He stated "single payer is the system that would cover everyone", and then went on with the corporate rant of how we need to protect a system delivered to us by Richard Freaking Nixon and Haldeman (HMO's) that was never to deliver even basic health care.
The VA system has now been proven to be the most cost effective program (Howard Dean reported on it last night). The study was commissioned by Forbes magazine and the reporter was shocked to see the results. The VA system is the highest supported system by the members who are in it...a single payer system by the way.
Rick the idiot Jenson says, "We should all be asking for the same system Congress has", gee Rick thats also a single payer system.
So where's the beef? Lets see the numbers from a single payer system compared with the for profit system, lets see the facts? Then decide what is best for every american regardless of this right, left crap. That argument divides us and keeps anything great happening on behalf of we the people.